Travelling with Sjoerd Wijnsma - Manager Public Affairs, Arriva Group

Tourism’s decarbonisation efforts largely depend on progress in other sectors, amongst them, transportation. Could you tell us about some challenges Arriva faces in achieving zero emissions trains and buses?

“Public transport is sustainable. Every person who travels by train or bus is not using a car. Therefore, public transport has a very important role in decarbonising the economy and the transport sector.

In terms of technology, public transport must transition from diesel-based operations to zero-emissions systems. For trains, electrifying the railway network is a well-known and acceptable solution. However, it is very expensive and requires significant investment. Arriva operates in the Netherlands, mostly on regional lines, where passenger numbers are not high enough to justify the investment in electrifying the railway network. That's why it's important to look for alternative options, such as battery-powered trains, partial electrification or hydrogen.

If you look at bus operations, electric buses are getting more and more reliable, with battery improving and the overall quality of the buses rising. At the same time, if we want to operate electric buses, we need sufficient electricity. Especially here in the Netherlands, the electricity grid is not yet sufficient to support all the country’s mobility ambitions.

I think that those are two of the main challenges: it is a question of investment and a question of the capacity of the grid.”

To what extent leisure and tourism demands are addressed in your mobility offer?

“Leisure and tourism are the second or third largest passenger group after students and commuters. We aim to encourage tourism and leisure travellers to use the train and bus, especially after rush hour, by offering discounts. We have a strong partnership with major tourism events and destinations, like the Keukenhof, and cooperate with them extensively.

A few years ago in Friesland, we introduced a special day card for tourists visiting the region, allowing them to travel by train and bus to various tourist destinations. They also offer a unique deal for the Keukenhof. Every year, the Keukenhof is visited by thousands of people, and we operate special buses that run directly between the airport and the gardens. Tourists visit Keukenhof and then return to the airport to fly to their next destination. Additionally, we offer special tickets for those travelling to the islands here in Friesland. And, as I live in Leeuwarden, I enjoyed when, in 2018, Leeuwarden was the European Capital of Culture, and Arriva was the main sponsor, operating extra buses and offering special tickets for visiting the 11 cities.”

Can we conclude that Arriva considers tourism as a valuable market?

“It is seen as a valuable market, and it continues to grow. Since 2021, new European legislation has allowed anyone to operate trains across Europe. The tourism and leisure sector is also exploring how they can make their offerings more sustainable by using trains and collaborating with train companies and operators of international trains. Therefore, in the future, this market will only become increasingly important.”

Could you elaborate on this cooperation and coordination between the transport and tourism sectors? Who are the stakeholders you are working with at both the national and international levels?

“This cooperation is still in the early phases, but interest is growing. Recently, Corendon announced in the news that they plan to operate trains to bring passengers to the airport, from where they can fly to their final destinations. There are new companies on the market announcing to operate services in the future, in cooperation with the tourism sector and leisure organisations, by offering package deals for holidays and travel by train.

Not long ago, the first night train from European Sleeper started operating between Brussels and Prague, which is great news. Overall, it will be exciting to see cross-border trains operating at faster speeds. For example, today, you can travel by train from Amsterdam to Paris in 3 hours and from Paris to Barcelona in 6 hours. If you combine these routes and skip a few stops, you could potentially complete the journey in about 8,5 hours, which would directly compete with flying and definitely with driving. This will be a huge market for leisure and tourism operators to explore.”

Regarding night trains, there is a possibility they remain a niche market. How does Arriva approach this specific segment?

“We have no international night trains yet, but we are always looking for commercially viable opportunities. We do operate some night trains from Groningen and Maastricht to the airport. These aren’t traditional night trains, but they serve passengers who travel overnight or want to catch an early flight from Schiphol. It is simply another market, and we are exploring every opportunity we see.”

In your view, does the tourism sector support sustainable mobility agendas and specifically the actions of Arriva? And if so, in what way?

“The main challenge when launching a new train service is making the business case viable. We know how to operate regional trains and buses, and we understand how to build a business case for those train lines or connections. Tourism and leisure companies, on the other hand, know the tourism market better than we do. I think it will be a cooperation between us to develop the business cases - looking to share investments, distribute the burdens, and create a commercially viable product.”

Is this dialogue something that still needs to be established?

“It is starting. This is all due to the new EU legislation. It's quite recent and its effects are now starting to be felt in the market. You can see it in Spain, Italy, and France. The Netherlands is a bit behind in this case due to more reluctance, but it is catching up.”

In your opinion, what would be needed to accelerate this change?

“I think there are several factors at play, and it just takes time. We need to understand the markets, leisure companies need to learn the market, and we need to cooperate. But more importantly, if you want to create a cross-border international railway network within Europe, you need to be brave enough to let go of the bureaucracy surrounding the railway tracks and trains.

Currently, there is a new European system, ERTMS (European Rail Traffic Management System), which is ideal. It requires significant investment, but in the future, it will help. Right now, if we want to operate a train from the Netherlands to Paris, we need three different safety and security systems on the train, which is quite expensive. With the new European system, we will only need one. However, as we implement it at the Member State level, we are adding extra layers. So, while we have a European system, we still have separate Dutch, French, and Belgian versions, which don't work efficiently.

If we want to buy and operate an international train, it needs to be checked by European, Dutch, Belgian, and French agencies. Once the European agency certifies that a train is safe to operate, why do we need another check in the Netherlands or France? There is still a lot to be done to simplify this process.”

Could you tell me a bit more about the way the ERTMS and the European policy agenda affects the operations of Arriva Group, and the way you interact with this new policy?

“I think transport corridors are important for providing clarity on the future direction of European transport. As Arriva, we always support new railway connections, if they are well-designed, with ERTMS as the European standard from the start.

Currently, in the Netherlands, there is a discussion about the Lelyline, a connection between Amsterdam and Groningen. It is clear from the European map that there is a missing link between Stockholm, Amsterdam and Paris. If you look at the Dutch map, you see a missing link between Groningen and Amsterdam. We need to adopt a European approach to address these connections.”

With regards to cross-border travel, what other main challenges do you face in the rail industry?

“The different legislations across Europe, or the varying interpretations of European legislation in different member states, along with the capacity of the railways, make it a very complicated issue. As mentioned earlier, currently we are working on a train route from Groningen to Paris. There is capacity between Paris and Amsterdam, but between Groningen and Amsterdam, it's more complicated. The challenge is ensuring that all the right steps are taken and that we all work together on these ambitions to make it happen.”

Can you point to specific aspects that need to be improved to increase capacity?

“I think we need to approach railways differently. When it comes to roads, if there is enough traffic, we simply add an extra lane. In railways, however, we only make investments once - once there is a solid business case and a complete plan. With the new EU legislation, we, of course, do not want to reveal our commercially viable ideas until we are fully ready. So, the government also needs to take a different approach to railways, ensuring they have enough capacity to allow different companies to add different products.”

What are the steps that need to be taken for the trains to operate with this increased capacity?

“18 months before we want to start a service, we need to make an official announcement to the market authority, the ACM, in the Netherlands. We need to do this in every European country where we plan to operate. They will then assess whether the new services interfere with existing ones, such as those in concessions or subsidised services. Once that is approved, we need to approach the infrastructure manager in the Netherlands and do the same in all the countries where we want to operate. They will assign us the capacity on the network, which will happen in April. The new services could then start in December with the updated schedules. On one hand, that timeline is very tight, because we need more time to purchase trains and hire staff. If we have an agreement with ProRail in April, it is very short notice. The process needs to adapt to allow for more capacity and flexibility so we can operate these trains.”

Do you foresee these changes happening soon?

“Yes, because there is no alternative. All operators will face these issues across Europe, and they will raise their hands and say, ‘Look, this needs to be changed in France’ or ‘This is already changing in France.’”

These actions may require joint efforts from rail operators internationally, and across borders. Can we talk about a united front? Is there alignment?

“Not at all. The national companies are trying to protect their markets, and we are the new operators. European countries are required by EU law to allow these operators to enter the market, but they will do everything they can to delay or prevent us from operating. We're trying to open the markets. It is not that we want to take a share of the market from the current operators; it's about expanding the market for all of us.”

Perhaps having more data and information on current and projected demand for train travel could be helpful.

“Exactly. If everyone knows there is demand between Barcelona and Amsterdam, even if Paris isn’t included by rail, having a direct line would have a great impact in convincing governments to ensure railway capacity is ready for those trains.”

Could you elaborate on the exchange of data and information between Arriva and the relevant leisure and tourism stakeholders?

“I can give an example of the Keukenhof: we know the exact number of tickets sold by Keukenhof, where the passengers are coming from and at what time they want to visit. This allows us to accurately predict how many buses we need, where, and at what time.

We also analyse historical data from events or concerts to determine where our passengers are coming from and what time they need to be served by a bus or train.”

Can we talk about a structural approach to data sharing or is it more ad hoc?

“It is also commercially very tempting to keep this information for yourself, both for the operator and for the leisure sector. However, sharing this data will be necessary for us to build a business case for a train to Paris or Barcelona. We need information on how traffic is moving across Europe, and I think the leisure sector has much more of this information than we do. So, this cooperation is essential.”

What do you believe is needed for such a change in mindset?

“Most companies in the leisure sector today do not consider buses, regional trains, or international trains as their primary means of transport to events or activities. I think that's a societal shift we must make - to prioritise public transport. If you organise an event, first think about how people will get there by public transport and what can be done to make it as easy as possible.”

What other opportunities do you see for further actions that could contribute to sustainable tourism mobility and foster joint action with the transportation sector?

“I think it is important that we cooperate on policy to ensure the European Union follows through on its ambitions and makes them a reality. To do this, we need more flexibility on the railways, and less bureaucracy and we need to replicate what happened in aviation: more companies, lower prices, and increased competition. I believe this will help us all to operate more trains in the future.”

My last question is: what is your vision for the future of mobility, and perhaps tourism mobility specifically?

“I would say the future is rail. It might be somewhat multimodal, though - if you want to go to America, you need to fly. But within Europe, rail is the future, especially for distances under a thousand kilometres.”